Conversations with various disciples and visitors in between 1939-41. Translated from Bengali by Sri Ajay Nath Ganguly in 1954.

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October 5, 1939

The darkness of the night set in. Sri Sri Thakur was seated on a chowki (a rectangular sitting arrangement) in the ashram courtyard by the river bank, and some people of ashram were with him. Gopalda came. Thakur told him, "The Manu-Samhita starts with a description of the beginning of the cosmic cycle, and there is some real sense in that. By understanding things in the order in which they appear one can get a proper understanding of them. Chalar Sathi ( Life's Companion) starts with the creation of the universe. I did not make any great plans for it that way; it turned out that way of itself. Unless we are acquainted with the elements, our knowledge is only of bits and pieces, and we don't come to a full understanding. What big scientists our ancient seers were none today understands. A great ascetic like Mahadev, for example, was responsible for a great many medical formulas. People today generally have a distorted picture of saints. But the real saints werevery active and practical. In how many ways they serve the society !"
In the course of his talking , Thakur said, "I do not see another normal man around like Ramakrishna."
Later in the night prayer and meditation were discussed.Thakur said," These things don't fit in well unless one has a normal life.A posed or'got-up' life will never do.I have never obtained anything by going through gymnastics for it. I would do things when felt like it.I never saw Sarkar Saheb.That is why my mother was everything to me.Whatever I would do would be to gain credit with her. If fancy so pleased me I would begin repeating Name in the dead of the night. I always had a strong urge to do things swiftly. Once I walked three miles from Khoksa in 22 minutes. My activity became intense, and I enjoyed my work all the more. I would do kirtan.In the periods of trance consciousness would be lost.But still I do not attach any importance to that.At other times I was always conscious. When I grasped a thermometer one day, the temperature went up to 110 degrees. Water sprinkled on my body would evaporate.Such things happened.Visions like those I discussed with you before would come. "People do not understand the meaning of God.They go on with queer ideas in their heads and do all sorts of peculiar things.That's why they don't get anywhere. Those who get the association of the great really get fulfilment. What cannot be understood by ascetic practices can be understood by them, seen by them, normally.And this again cannot happen unless one leads a normal life."

October 9, 1939

In the evening a gentleman from Calcutta came and desired to know how to make progress in business.
Sri Sri Thakur said, "Jajan (self-exaltation),Jaajan ( the exaltation of others), and Istabhrity ( the maintenance of one's Ideal)are the foremost duties of man.One must exert oneself for one's becoming, and at the same time convince the environment to do the same.Man cannot get by ignoring his environment.That is why it is to a man's interest to serve his environment.At every turn Jajan and service are required. Say, for example, you have a cycle shop.You start thinking hoe to supply everyone with a cycle.Perhaps you think to supply even a poor man by letting him pay instalments. You do Jajan with him about how convenient it would be for him to have a cycle.When he goes in for a cycle and enjoys its advantages, he will express a heartfelt gratitude for what you have done, saying,'Such and such a man has considered my financial position and has made it possible for me to have this cycle.Had he not given me special sonsideration, I would have never have had it.He made it very easy for me.' Hearing his words, many pour into your shop, and thus your business begins to thrive.
If instead of this you had looked for grater profits by cheating him,he would probably have detected it and said to others, 'Look out. Don't go over to that man's shop.He is cheat'.If you have a thousand customers and you get a very small profit from each of them which they know about, is that not better than taking a grater profit from a hundred? The Sanskrit word for business comes from a root meaning,'that which truly saves from death.' "But whatever you do, have love for your Ideal at he root of it.Passions then remain in your control.Serviceable attitude arises.Work becomes flawless.Whoever comes in contact with you sticks to you like glue, enchanted with your Ideal-fulfilling service and attitude.Human wealth increases and progress becomes inevitable.Man becomes eligible for good out of his attachment for Ideal.That is why Guru is called man's Supreme Good.Only by following him can man have good."

October 11, 1939

It was about ten o'clock in the morning.Sri Sri Tahkur was seated on a snow-white bedding, his feet bare, a thick sacred thread hanging from his shoulder.He was talking about this and that with Gopalda, who is smiling.Haripada da,Kalidasima and others now and again gave him tobacco, water and betelnut.Thakur caught sight of a dentist examining Bhushnima's teeth by the side of the temple stairs.The Dentist was dressed in European fashion. Thakur commented, "When the boys of our country finish their studies and become professionals like doctors, pleaders or barristers, they put on sahib clothing.This seems to me very insulting. Our Bharadwaj may be a big physician but principally he is a Ritwik (a guardian in the society).All of his activities come out with that as their ground.Whatever he becomes, he cannot give up his characteristic headgear and sash." Thakur turned to Gopalda. "If you turn out to be a bigshot and still wear your Ritwik's dress though surrounded by bodyguards and attendants got up in tightfitting suits, how grand you will look!When a man stands clad in snow-white vest-shirt (fatua) and wrapper (Dhoti), he looks like an angel."

October 12, 1939

Sushilda back in ashram today after collecting information on memories of previous births.He described his findings in detail to Sri Sri Thakur's great enjoyment.At one time he said,"I examined the horoscopes of two such persons (those who could remember their previous births), and I found that both had been born in the same astral combinations as they had previously died in !" Sri Sri Thakur and Gopalda jumped up simultaneously.They shouted joyously,"is it so,really ? The very thing we guessed!" Sri Sri Thakur said, "Gopal, now you must look into this thoroughly.I said so a long time ago.After all is said and done, we have not been able to discover the key to memory continuity.The question remains, how is it possible to remember incidents of previous birth? This is the only problem in the world.And it doesn't seem to be something unsurmountable.If one can find the trick, the thing is done. If man achieve this, he achieves all.One need not worry about what he doesn't know. as long as the conscious entity remains,it is not difficult to invade the beyond." to Sushilda he said ,"Tomorrow please start writing letters to all the people concerned.try to find the book, Buddhistic Meditation." (This book is supposed to contain a method of reviving memories of previous births). Sushilda mentioned a sadhu who lives only on leaves.Thakur said," We make such a fuss about our food! How easily this great problem can be met!" Tahkur seemed to be in a state of great exitement today.Again and again he was calling for Sushilda, hearing the same story about previous births over and over again and making others listen too. In the evening Sushilda described in detail the reappearance of Papaji in a human body after his death.Thakur said,"That would seem to be nothing else than the ectoplasmic body."

I asked Sri Sri Thakur, “Is it a fact that you remember your previous life?” Thakur answered, ”I don’t know whether it is just imagination or not, but it seems as though I clearly remember that my Grandma and myself are sailing on a river in a boat, and that there are a lot of turtles all round. I asked Grandma about it, but she brushed it aside. I also seem to remember that I once lived at the foot of a hill. I used to sit on a rock. A rivulet flowing eastward was before me. Pretty, red paths ran through the wood. I had a wife. She loved me very much. It seems to me she would know me even now if I went there. About this present life I remember I was born in a room. A very dim lamp was burning. Mother said it was so. Many things occur to me, and they all seem real. Things flash in the mind. I did not discuss them before; now I occasionally give them out.” When everyone went away, I asked what an ectoplasmic body is. Sri Sri Thakur said,” It is the one beyond germ plasmic body. When steam condense into vapour, it becomes just visible to us. The ectoplasmic body is like that. It is nothing more than a condensation of very fine matter.” I said, “Swamiji is said to have seen Thakur Ramakrishna many times after his death.” Thakur said, “Swamiji may have seen , or someone else may have seen, but what use is it unless everyone in the environment can see him in a normal way? Personally I don’t like anything that isn’t concrete. I do not feel comfortable unless I can realize things along with my environment by means of instrument or other. That is probably why it seems that philosophy, religion, science and art have all merged into one another in my thinking.” When I asked Thakur to speak about some particular vision, he said, ”I was along the Cossipore Road one day. There was heavenly light all round. Gods and goddesses were singing. I remembered a couple of lines of the music for a long time.I told others about it. Now I can only recall the word ,”Swagatam” ( welcome ). I got into a cane forest one day while walking along the road. Beside myself, I walked on and on. I walked straight on without seeing the course of the road. I came back to my senses when someone else pointed out my condition. Many a time even now I have a feeling that it is myself that has become a certain tree,”
I had heard that the marks of a whip were once found on the back of Sri Sri Thakur when he saw a horse being whipped. When I asked about this, he said,"We feel pain when we see a man stumbling. This is something like that.Imagination is so strong that without physical stimulus nerves become irritated. As in night pollution.One has a feeling that sexual intercourse is going on, but actually it is not.Still semen is discharged."
"Those who follow Swastyayani ( the five observances for well being) find that talismans made from flowers used in Swastyayani ceremony are potent in bringing about desired results," I said.
On hearing this Thakur said,"They are in a position, probably, to give others a vital push."
Satyada is unwell.At night Sri Sri Thakur said to Birenda,"Can you find out a medicinefor Satya? I want it to be an absolutely in falliable one."One remembers in this connection that all the medicines of the Satsang Chemical Works originated in just such an active sympathy and serviceable attitude. Why only medicines? All the centers of activity have come into being by keeping in sight the material needs of some individual or other. Centering itself on the dominating problems of individual lives and progressing by the intrepid onward march of a loving soul, a nation-wide programme of unique movement comes into being.

October 13, 1939

This morning Sri Sri Thakur said," If we are strong on our principle, we won't have to yield to our environment. Instead, our environment yields to us. If we have an urge to do what has to be done, and then actually do it, and if it is necessary to deal with the environment in that work, the environment too gets enthusted.Those who are incapable soon drop off their own accord.Biruda and I went walking one day.After a while Biruda got tired and sat down.I went on ahead without waiting for him.Seeing there was nothing else to do, he got up and walked.
"Say, for instance, someone goes out on a particular piece of business. Cicumstances may force him to start on a "bad" day.He finally gets the work done but only after many trials and tribulations.Why should this be? It is to be understood in such a case that the man has some disorder in motor-sensory co-ordination fulfilling to his principle or in his immediate motor-sensory co-ordination.Due to this in co-ordination,the influence of the environment did not allow the fulfilment of some previous intention then and there.Then, as a result of this unfulfilment, a blundering twist formed in his brain, and this twist went on to create chaos and disorder when he set about the later intention.
"Once the Deputy Superintendent of Police in Kustia called me aside and said,"I cannot allow every Tom, Dick and Harry to come to you." He threatened me in many ways. But I said,"I cannot stop anyone from coming, and it is not proper on your part to talk like that." Later on, he would himself come to see me at least once, if not twice , every day. So it goes.
"In the beginning many spies would come and takedown notes of the talks and conversations we had. We made a box, and we would beg money from passengers on the river steamers.We helped many people from that fund; we even helped a number of the spies. Then those that we tried to help would be after us. I understood them all, but I gave to them anyway." That would be doing them disservice." I protested.
Sri Sri Thakur said,"It is my idea that if I don't look after them, they will not live. When a sick person takes a forbidden food, does he do so understanding what will result? It is his disease that inclines him to it.It is the same with the spies. My attitude is : let them live first of all. The way to gradual correction lies open if one lives. Who can become good being finished? All hope is gone then."
We talked of many things after this.In the course of the conversation Sri Sri Thakur said,"When I used to repeat name, Lord Krishna would come and play on the flute.My ears would be filled with enchanting music. I would see Sri Krishna as one of my age.But his complexion is not dark at all.It is almost like grass turned pale when covered up for a few days.I have seen Mother Kali many times. At first sight she would seem just like my mother.No diffence at all.That is, perhaps, the reason why my attachment to my mother increased so.Once I went to Dakshineswar and felt very thirsty.A man supplied water to many but I was left out. I felt very unhappy and cross. I went over to Lord Ramakrishna's room.Things looked so familiar ! But that may not mean much. It may be due to my having heard things before-hand.Then I went and slept in the Panchboti grove. I saw Mother Kali coming.Dark, yet how soothing was her beauty ! She came and put my head on her knees.At her touch I was beside myself. I could not resist her wishes. I had to do whatever she said.She said in an endearing tone,"You asked for food when others were present.How could I give you then? Darling, take these." I saw luchi, borphi, sandesh on a plate bright and golden.She fed me. I ate all and with great relish.When I had finished-drinking water and all-someone called me. I got up and found my hunger and thirst were gone.I walked till ten that night but felt no hunger.I heard that such things should not be told, so I did not tell them before."

October 17, 1939

Jatinda asked, What should a student organization be like?" Sri Sri Thakur answered,"One should meet a necessity as it arises in the course of work.A thing is best built that way."
The subjects of Hitler and Mussolini came up.Sri Sri Thakur said,"Without a Guru a man's balance does not stand.Shivaji,though a ruler,presented his dominion to Ramdas and ran it in trust for him. He was as afraid of Ramdas as a child of bogey.But his fear was due to his unflinching love.That is why he could remain steady in the midst of the greatest dangers.He never got so much as scratch, Mussolini can disobey the king if he likes, but he does not." About Hitler, Sri Sri Thakur said,"Attachment for mother is not all.One must have a fulfilling centre. A man may be small, insignificant, but if his attachment for a superior stands, he will rise. A man may be lowering his eyes today, but who knows what heights he will reach tomorrow?"
Explaining why Ramachandra killed Shambuk,Sri Sri Thakur said,"Shambuk was breaking the Varnashram and disrupting the society.Acquiring the qualities of a Brahmin may be an ideal for all of us, but we must not ignore the duties that go with our own inherited traits.One must evolve brahminical qualities with work that fits with one's inherited instincts.Our great seer, Janaka, did not give up the work of a protector of the state. A businessman cannot acquire brahminical qualities by ignoring activities that are instinctive to him.If he tries that, the society disintegrates.How can a merchant qualify to know God if he does not even know his own business? Whatever one may do, one should do it standing on one's hereditary instincts.Then the society stays right.The Prati-Ritwiks (social workers) that are being recruited from among the business and administrator classes should work with this in mind! Aryans lay more stress on inborn instincts than on acquired characteristics.Instincts are automatic, like the action of the heart at the present time.This action may not have been so once, we might have had to impart it deliberately.But now the heart goes on whether we pay attention to it or not.A quality that is automatic like that is called an instinct.A particular action is converted into an instinct by repetition through generations. The tempering of steel that is done by hand by the blacksmiths of Ujirpur is an example. It is unparalleled even today.They are supposed to be able to make pistols even ! An instinct doesn't die off in a thousand years. If we can gather ourselves up today in chromosomic clusters, there is no telling how much we can achieve. We have everything in our blood.Supraselective, interclass marriage and common Ideal are the two cementing factors in the society.How mistaken we are when we try to cry down one great man and establish another! We thereby create sectarianism.That is why nation gets disintegrated into lumps.We must be concentric on the present one who fulfils all the past, and stands on jajan,jaajan and istabhriti.We must all observe these things ourselves and make others follow them.What a great thing can be achieved by jaajan! How much time would it take to build a nation if thousand Ritwiks went to different villages of Bengal doing jaajan, and groups went out to the different provinces doing the same? They talk of unemployment ! Our Dipankar was an inhibitant of Bajrajigini (Eastern Bengal). What great things he achieved with jaajan! There are so many pure Aryans among the Bangalees. When there were attacks in other sections, Aryans flew into this corner. The life and blood of these people is not a common place thing. We don't have the least idea of what we have.Kestoda has collected some facts.One becomes amazed to hear them.It would be difficult to surpass this race if it were once united."
Kestoda of Chandannagore asked," What will my work be?"
Sri Sri Thakur said," What is to be done is all laid out.Let us kill the enemy in any way!"
I asked,"By 'what is to be done' you mean Ideal's interest and His establishment, do you not?"
Sri Sri Thakur said,"Yes, that is the compass for all voyages in the world.Our movements have to be directed by it. Nothing else need to be mentioned.His interest and establishment are like the two poles, North and South.Merely the interest of Ideal will not do.You may perhaps steal a million rupees and serve the interest of Ideal that way, but seeing that people will say,'That man is a Guru of thieves.' That may fulfil the interest of Ideal but will not help in His establishment.One has to keep an eye on this too.If one has to go to a prostitute's house for the interest and establishment of Ideal, one can be in possession of good.Sin is that which makes us fall off from our support.Sin has no other meaning than this." Thakur then added,"If Kestoda decides that he will not allow five hundred people to fall off, tries heart and soul for good, serves them with all his might, and these five hundred in turn each give a crumb for his sake,then Kestoda's bowl will be filled.And then, in addition to meeting his own needs, he can maintain many others."
I asked,"Normal renunciation comes as a final phase of following the four-fold path.Can one attain this stage of sainthood without going through the whole process?"
Sri Sri Thakur answered, "A sadhu or saint is one who can carry things through to their completion.The word 'sadhu' originates from a word that means 'to achieve'.What sort of saint is he who does not take responsibility and do his duty? The work and responsibility of one who is surrendered to good increases more."
Sri Sri Thakur said in another connection,"We do not come across Aryans in their true colours anymore.That is why we don't appreciate their nature.If it blossoms once more, then only will we understand their real grandeur.Let alone a Brahmin! We don't even meet a pure and ideal Baishya.Could we be in such a miserable condition it the Baishyas forgot their Ideal and Culture and joined hands with their foreign brothers-in-trade, the ruin of the nation began."
Sri Sri Thakur asked Kestoda to find two mechanics proficient in moulding, electroplating,milling,turning etc. He went on in a tone of regret."Shortage of men is our only difficulty.How much we could have achieved here if we had men in the right places!The instruments in the laboratory are being wasted for lack of men.If we get proper men for the workshop, we can provide for the food of a thousand people.And we want people that will not accept any salary but will take the responsibility of all undertakings maintain the workers and remain happy accepting,the minimum for themselves.People outside may tempt them with money, they will not be tempted.It is extremely difficult for an expert, however big he may be, to be successful if money be his real aim and not the building of an institution.Then again, one must have a cool temperament.There are people of different mentalities here.A man must have tenacity to stick."

October 18, 1939

In the evening anew visitor said to Thakur,"However much we exert ourselves, everything depends on luck.Someone is not able to achieve anything even after a lot of trouble,while someone else comes out successful after just a little effort."
Sri Sri Thakur said,"But luck depends on doing.It is to be understood that one who is not able to achieve is disordered in his doing. Fate (the unforseen) means the effect of our actions that pervades the environment and gets scattered beyond our sight.No orderliness comes into a man's activity,no harmony sprouts, individuality doesn't get integrated if there be no principle.The complexes alone guide the man.Complexes are complicated and entangling.That is why they are called complexes.One entangle in one, a man is not able to see anything outside it.It turns out to be his universe.There is no connection between one of them and another.A man remains imprisoned in whatever he enters into.So many people work such a great deal.But a peasant boy turns out to be minister all of a sudden.How does he do it? At the root of this there is attraction or inclination toward a desired one.Attachment is everything.I cannot claim that you won't be able to find a single great man in this world without active attachment to a superior beloved, but there are very few such.. We read history but we miss the glowing point in a man's life."
The visitor said,"Why should I depend on someone? I can do it all myself."
Sri Sri Thakur replied,"Man's very existence depends on others.I used to say to myself,I am He; I am He' for a while, but that doesn't seem to fit in well with human nature.By that process everything seems to recoil back on oneself.I can utter,'I am He'when I am able to see others to be the same as He.An 'I am He and 'All others are just nothing' attitude does not get anyone anywhere.I like "I am Thine'. If there is somebody as Thou, and if there is a tension due to an urge of fulfilling him, our sensitiveness and receptivity increase.We grow as aresult of this, otherwise we go down and down under the weight of complexes and ego. In other words there is libido in man.This libido wants to get attached.A man who becomes active due to attachment of this libido to superior(mother,Guru and so on)is bound to rise.The Gita says,'There is no intelligence or becoming for one who is not attached,no peace for one who has no becoming,and no enjoyment for one who does not have peace.'Perhaps in another place it says,'Attachment is the technique of achievement.'Is that not so? It is the sum and substance.The word Thakur means one who knocks.Our complexes are in conflict with him.Adjustment results out of thisconflict if there is attachment."
Visitor: "I understand the love for mother of Hitler and Mussolini but we don't see any love for Guru in their cases."
Sri Sri Thakur : "A deep love for mother is sure to hurl you forward.Then comes love for Guru.One needs Guru because he canguide at every stage, and we grow bigger day by day in our loving pursuit of him.If there be love for Guru or mother, motorsensory co-ordination is inevitable."

to be contd...